Islam in the Netherlands and Western Europe: The long road ahead
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Tagged with: It's time for a political entry again! Recently I have been involved in some strong discussions on a very good Dutch muslim weblog called wijblijvenhier.nl. A web address that would translate into English as something like 'we're going to stay'. And yes, this is the reality some people can't seem to accept. Islamic people are all over Europe and they aren't going to leave unless one day some 4th Reich emerges that will brutally eliminate anyone with a religion or beliefs that don't suit the government.
Let's assume (and hope) the above scenario will never actually become a reality and take a look at what's currently going on in the Netherlands, and probably in many other European countries. I fear we have an enormously long road ahead. Yet I hope we'll be able to work things out in order to create an environment in which people with different cultures and religions can live together in peace without the hatred, fear and continuous bickering that's plagueing society at this very moment.
First let's take a look at what different 'parties' are currently part of the ongoing debate on Islam in Western Europe.
Fear and hate towards Islam
A very outspoken (and unfortunately, growing) group of people showcases a deeply rooted fear of Islam and it's followers. Some of them are blindly following extreme right-wing spokesmen, almost out of fashion. These people tend to be uneducated on the subject matter and simply adhere to whatever their spokesmen tell them to. You can spot people like this in the comments on various right-wing websites. They don't really engage in any discussion but stick to oneliners like “Those foreigners just need to fuck off and leave our country!”.
Then there's the so called 'thinkers'. They tend to write reasonably intelligent sounding books, essays or comments on the internet. They're however continuous repetitions of the same thing. There's no constructivity to be found in any of their words. Instead, they keep on 'warning' us Europeans about the 'danger that Islam is', how Islamic people want to turn Western European countries into Islamic nations and how we need to 'fight this at all cost'. While these people at least show some intelligence by the way they lay out their thoughts in their writings they're essentially as narrow minded as the earlier mentioned 'naysayers'. The only difference is the fact that this group does somewhat engage in the discussion. I'm saying 'somewhat' because they aren't really discussing anything. Instead they merely keep on broadcasting their message of hate and fear without bringing any insightful solution to any of the problems related to the muslims vs. non-muslims debate. It's almost like a propaganda record that has been put on 'continuous repeat'. Usually these people are very keen on citing passages from the Holy Quoran that suit their objectives. Of course we all know the exact same thing can be done with the Holy Bible as well in an attempt to bash Christianity. It's quite easy to fall for the things these people have to say. Compare it to conspiracy theorists. If one keeps firing enough verbal munition at your audience and the munition is carefully worded, using all available tactics to 'win a discussion' quite some people are ready to accept a theory. Does it mean the theory is right? Of course not. It's amazing how much can be achieved if you're a good writer or spokesman. There's plenty of both historic and recent examples that prove this very point. Which ones those are I'll leave to your own imagination.
Fear, anger and frustration among Islam
On the opposite side of the spectrum there's Islamic people who feel afraid, misunderstood, discriminated or even oppressed. They tend to be unable to deal with criticism in a mature way. This is sad but sometimes understandable. If you've been discriminated long enough, something's just going to 'snap' eventually. Recent surveys have shown that there's a LOT of discrimination going on in the Netherlands. A lot more than most people think. Sadly we're not the tolerant country a lot of Dutch pride themselves upon anymore. We've gone down the slippery slope quite a bit already. This has resulted in a proportion of the muslim community to become overly defensive and flat out bitter. If they enter the debate at all you're not going to get much sense out of them because it's mostly frustration speaking when speaking to them. I strongly believe this group of frustrated Muslims is mostly created by the groups of people I described earlier in this essay. It's like keeping on beating a friendly dog with a stick. It will deal with the beatings for a while but eventually it will bite you. And rightfully so.
Even though it's possible to have some understanding for the way this particular group of muslims feels it's extremely hard to work towards a better society with them. At least, for a non-muslim. These people will have to be guided by the next group of people I'm about to describe: The modern muslim with a positive attitude towards integration, mutual respect and the need for a society in which muslims and non-muslims live together in harmony.
The 'enlightened muslim'
Another group of people participating in the debate is the one I'd like to call the enlightened muslims. They are the ones that are able to look beyond the blatantly discriminating propaganda of those who fear Islam. They are the ones that are willing to learn from Western Europeans with an open mind towards them. In addition to that they are willing to accept the fact that we have to work things out together. They clearly see the fact that some 'sacrifices' will have to be made from both sides. Those sacrifices don't even have to mean 'giving up on important values or beliefs'. They can actually lead to a mutual understanding and eventually result in a culture richer than just the two parts together. These are the muslims that can build a bridge between their frustrated or radical fellow believers on one hand and the Western Europeans who are ready to accept the fact that they're going to have to live together with people with another belief and another culture. This is definitely not an easy task. Just like it's extremely hard for me to deal with people who are affected by the hate and fear induced anti Islam propaganda I can perfectly understand that their task is equally hard. Yet we have no choice but take on this difficult task. No one is going to leave any European country any time soon so we have to work things out together.
The road ahead
Of course I missed one group of people in the above analysis. It's the group of Western European people that are willing to accept the way things currently are. Like the domain name of the website that inspired me to write this post says: they're going to stay here. This is a fact that those who fear or hate Islam will have to accept eventually. If not they'll probably have to leave the country themselves. Like I stated in the beginning, it's not very likely some new nazi party will rise and get rid of everything they don't deem 'appropriate'. In fact, if that ever happens I will be the first to leave Western Europe myself because I wouldn't want to be part of a nation like that.
It's definitely not going to be easy. The tension in the Netherlands is rising and large groups of people are becoming more and more polarized. Yet I think it's not too late yet. Luckily I still know plenty of muslims whom I'd classify as members of the enlightened group. Likewise I still know plenty of Western European people who are willing to work together. Hate and fear isn't going to take us anywhere. It has never taken any nation anywhere as history has shown us numerous times.
Let's get to work y'all!
At 26 June '06 - 04:17 Rose wrote:
My personal experiences are like that at this moment. I’ve always tried to show people the ‘two sides of the story’, but at the end, most of them just see te ‘wrong side’. And that’s a shame.
We’ve seen it at the discussion on ‘wijblijvenhier’, some Muslims don’t believe in mutual respect, some Dutch people won’t believe it either. Those last two groups should be abandoned from Holland (and all the other countries with the same sort of problem), so we can work with people who are willing to work on a real tolerant Holland.
At 26 June '06 - 04:24 Marco wrote:
This could however still be caused by the economic recession we’re slowly but surely recovering from at the moment. History has already shown that in times of economic recession, people start blaming everything on foreigners. As soon as the ecomomy will improve it could very well be that the amount of negative assholes decreases on par with that.
Let’s hope so! Like I said, there’s still plenty if positive minds on both sides. Much more than right-wing media such as the Telegraaf or various weblogs like us to believe.
At 26 June '06 - 07:06 Arjan wrote:
At 26 June '06 - 07:11 Marco wrote:
And, in the same respect one could argue that the non-muslim community is also rather inadequate in ‘policing itself’. Examples are the staggering amount of votes that ultra right-wing parties gain in Belgium and the enormous amount of votes that Pim Fortuyn’s party got in the Netherlands, just two elections ago. Votes from which the majority were fueled by fear and hatred against foreigners.
At 26 June '06 - 07:14 Arjan wrote:
At 26 June '06 - 07:29 Marco wrote:
I agree with your remark about democracy by the way. It could also be called the ‘dictatorship of the (often stupid) majority’. I don’t like it all that much either but unfortunately I can’t think of a better system. I’d definitely not trade it for a dictatorship or a totalitarian state. But… that’s an entirely different discussion I guess
At 26 June '06 - 07:33 Arjan wrote:
At 26 June '06 - 09:01 Dave wrote:
Just like Rose I always try to advocate that there are two sides to the same coin, always. It’s amazing how incredibly you get slated by certain people when you try to walk the thin-line in the middle.
At 26 June '06 - 10:14 Marco wrote:
Well, so far I’ve never had any mudslinging on going on on this site. The funny thing is the fact that English seems to function as a quite nice ‘moron filter’. One of the reasons I decided to start blogging in English in 2004 was the fact that blogging in Dutch always seemed to attract flames and moronic remarks. Stating the exact same things in English seems to prevent this pretty well so far. I didn’t even get nasty remarks on my article on Ayaan Hirsi Ali !
I guess the Dutch are a lot more rude when it comes to comments on the internet than people from other countries. The Dutch people that do make an effort to comment on this site in English have always been very nice.
At 27 June '06 - 01:01 Asim wrote:
Imagine, people like Marco and Dave were dominating this debate, wouldn’t it be more constructive? We’d only have to deal with the issues that really could make a difference.
I think the real problem lies in a different field. Basically feelings of fear are being discussed with a lot of words. Fear is difficult to deal with, but it can be used effectively to “divide and rule”.
Basically the fear is not for the religion of Islam, it is fear for the humans who follow the basic principles of Islam. This is something that must be understood! Spokesmen of right-wing based try to convince us that the religion is basically wrong, but I think they do not understand Islam to the full extent. Their fear of Islam is a cryout for a different voice. That voice says: “ I do not want to lose my identity.” They are afraid that they might cease to exist.
Their fear is not something that should be underestimated. But they are targeting the wrong source. They are afraid that in the “world of tomorrow” Islam will rule all of the world. And if we add to that fear the growth of Islam, which has been an ongoing process since the early rise of the Muslims, we can put their fears in a very different prospective. The fear of non-existence is far greater than we can imagine.
If we look at this fear we see that mankind has always strived for immortality. Every human has deeply wanted to become immortal, just like the Pharaoh’s of Egypt in earlier times. We accept Death as part of our life, but fear of Death is one of our largest fears. sadly it is a fear we cannot deal with. And this is the fear which is used by the spokesmen of right-wing based parties. They literally argue that if Islam is not halted, because it is backwarded minded, it will rule everything, and thus “our” world will cease to exist. In this context they address the fear of every human being, fear of non-existence. They will never teach you that you can survive as a human being in a changing world. On the other hand, the Islam is being addressed as a non-flexible ideology that is not able to develop itself and adapt to the changing world. And this also is being poured into the minds of Western masses: if Islam rules, the whole world will fall back into the Dark Middle Ages. We all know that the “West” has striven hard to leave behind those dark ages. The fear of an upliving of those dark ages is also a frightening point for humans.
In this way it is too difficult for Islam, or rather the Muslims, too change the image that is widely spread all over the world. Every “mistake” is taken as an example of to justify that image. The Islam is being identified as a nightmare. Do you still remember how afraid you were (and sometimes still are) when you had a nightmare and you parents would comfort you? When we become adults our parents our no longer there to comfort us, but our need for comfort has never left us. We still look for comfort just as to feel “safe”. Basically everything that is “different” frightens us and unconsiously we will try to keep our lifes and world “safe”. This means we will only accept those changes that we can tolerate.
The West is afraid that everything she has accomplished will fade into nothingness and thus she answers with a non-accepting attitude towards the East. Just think about the motives of our own subconscience for a while …
At 27 June '06 - 01:40 Marco wrote:
I think you’re right on the money with your observations.
It’s true, religions themselves aren’t ‘evil’ or ‘dangerous’. Not at all. All religions are essentially good. They give hope, joy and happiness to people. At least, that’s the main objective. While I’m not part of any organized religion myself I do have some sort of faith as well. And I can definitely gain strength out of it when times are rough.
Your reply perfectly illustrates the reasons I’m personally strongly opposed against any organized religion. It’s not because of the religion, it’s because of the people using it as a tool to oppress others. Seen in this light, very little has changed compared to the middle ages in which the Catholic Church ruled western Europe. Lot’s of rules, heavy punishments (burning witches and heretics anyone?), denial of free speech and thought. Even science was basically forbidden at those times because God forbid some scientist may find out the real intentions of the religious leaders.
In several middle Eastern countries these tactics still work. Look at Iran. A totalitarian regime in which a group of so-called religious leaders abuses Islam in order to oppress the people of Iran. In the process they give Islam a very bad name. It makes Islam look like something intrinsically evil and a true threat to the Western world. Bollocks, of course. It’s the moronic leadership in countries like Iran that are the real danger. It has nothing to do with Islam.
Then there’s (in the Netherlands) the problems in the suburbs, especially with Moroccan youth. The crime rate is high among them and they too give Islam a very bad name in the Netherlands. Of course, their criminal behavior again has nothing to do with Islam. The cause of their behavior AGAIN has nothing to do with Islam. It has everything to do with economic differences between ethnic groups, lack of education, parental control etc. etc. etc. Yet their behavior is another example of something that gives Islam a really bad name. It’s not hard to conclude that stealing and harrassing people isn’t part of any Islamic philosophy. In fact it’s considered just as wrong as it is in the Christian belief. Unfortunately a lot of Western people don’t seem to like thinking very much which is why they attribute all of the problems that exist related to people with a muslim background to Islam itself.
On the Western side of things we’ve got people like George Bush. Fighting for peace. Killing in the name of God. In essence George Bush is a modern crusader. Trying to force feed our ‘freedom’ to for example the people of Iraq. It reminds me of the funny saying “Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity” which perfectly illustrate the nonsense of it all.
In the Western world, the “fucking for virginity” that George Bush is doing is considered ‘good’ while regimes like the Iranian government are considered ‘wrong’. As far as I’m concerned they’re equally wrong. And the big victim is…. Islam! I often feel really sorry for all the nice and peaceful Islamic people out there who receive nothing but crap from others because of everything I just mentioned.
Like I said in the beginning: For me personally it’s best to not be part of any organized religion. I don’t ‘identify’ with George Bush’s war crimes committed ‘in the name of God’ which is why I’m reluctant to call myself a Christian. I don’t ‘identify’ with churches either. Any church has patronizing idiots in charge who feel like they have to tell me how to live while I really believe that should be something between me… and God. No moronic intervention needed for me, thanks a lot.
Islam may very well be a beautiful way of living as well but again, for me, I don’t feel like being part of it myself because of the same thing. People who hold the leadership are totally ruining the friendly and good face of Islam and just like with Christianity their deeds aren’t something I’d want to be associated with.
Peace to all muslims who mean well. Peace to all Christians who mean well and… of course peace to all other people, religious or not, who try to make the best out of it, work together and learn from eachother.
At 30 June '06 - 10:34 Kiper wrote:
This was some really interesting reading!
With people like you in the world, Marco, there is hope.
At 02 July '06 - 10:02 Alex wrote:
If only more people would be enoug open-minded to at least read this article and learn something from it!..
Thank you!
At 03 July '06 - 07:42 BO18 wrote:
The last group you mentioned, the enlightened muslims, is a group that needs all the support they can get.
Because within that group you start to see a kind of “integration-fatigue”
Some are just fed-up with both the non-muslim and muslim-community.
It’s hard battling against the prejudices and radical views within both communities.
That’s why a growing number of them just leaves everything for what it is. By emigrating to other countries or just totally excluding themselves from everything that has to do with integration.
Another important point thats needs to be emphasized is the fact that we shouldn’t talk about THE islam.
That just doesn’t exist.
The muslim-community in The Netherlands is extremely divided.
By ethnic lines and religious lines.
We should take that in to consideration everytime we create a policy or come with a so-called solution.
The politicians and opinionmakers nowadays dont see the distinctions within the muslimcommunity.
That results in a feeling within the muslimcommunity that nobody understands them.
Which then again results in a growing number of youngsters who feel disattached with the Dutch society.
I’m positive that the Dutch integration-policy will eventually work for the majority of the immigrants and muslims.
We’ll always have a minority within those communities that will not perfectly integrate.
It’s just the size of that minority that worries me at the moment.
At 01 August '06 - 02:36 Jurriaan Mous wrote:
It is a difficult subject with all that is happening in the world. It is all about black and white, and choosing sides. Here is my take on my own blog:
http://www.arquelis.com/2006/07/27/the-w..
At 05 October '06 - 03:26 Joel wrote:
Marco, I think you mixed it up. Here are some facts!
Who Mr. George Bush is to represent the whole association of Christianity? Since when the President of United States becomes an ultimate religious leader? Well, say, an apostle, or Pope in Catholic church or something at such significance level? No, he is not. Thus his action cannot whatsoever be associated with Christianity.
Now, take a look at Iran. Since the Islamic revolution, Iran adopted a Vilayat-e-Faqeh system, which put one religious leader in a position even higher than a President. This is a most appropriate law according to their belief, Shiite —fortunately, it’s only a minority sect in Islam. Again, whatever he does cannot be associated with Islam.
Next, to add little spice, take Israel. Poor Israel, isn’t she? She has to deal with Hezbollah (Shiite militia) from Lebanon, Hamas and others. Yesterday her aerial babies bombed 1 car and killed two men, simply to “intercept” a planned “terror” from these two rough Palestinian men. Poor, poor terrorized Israel. But since killing is not a good deed, I think you will also let go possibilities of being a Jew. You should NOT, because Israeli government cannot represent Judism in general.
Marco, you must see the lights that every religion brings. Choose one and spread the peace it contains. You alone cannot make changes for sure, but in the world these days, each of us must become the Prophet of Peace, regardless what religion we believe in. We’ve had enough blood shed in the name of God. Who we are to represent the Almighty, anyway?
At 09 September '07 - 09:48 Adam, London wrote:
The clock is already ticking.
When Muslims become the majority population in the Netherlands, will they adhere to the “nice, fluffy” liberal politics of the current, indigenous population? Take a look at Paris 2005 if you want a contemporary comparison – a small taste of the future.
You can “win” the argument, or you can “lose” the argument – soon talking won’t matter. Events on the ground will supercede any celebratory vomit you smuggly type, sat comfortably at home from the safety of your computer screen. Your shallow celebrations of cultural “diversity and vibrancy” will come to an abrupt end.
When this happens, will people like myself be congratulating ourselves , having been “proven correct”? No – we will be enduring exactly the same reality as naive fools like you.
At 13 April '09 - 16:43 saxon wrote:
At 28 March '10 - 06:37 ibrahim ali wrote:
Our LORD Appreciated Christians as per Quranic Verses 3:55,5:82,57:27,28 Except Quranic Verses 5:14,15,16
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